| Hunters | |
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Kuzii
Posts : 50 Points : 26771 Join date : 2009-09-18 Age : 34 Location : Virginia Beach
| Subject: Hunters September 18th 2009, 19:07 | |
| i hereby claim this section of the forums for my own.
this section is for discussion of talent builds, debates, or even general question answer about the hunter class.
currently the top 2 builds i see are marks and survival. however,
for marks i personally believe piercing shots in markmanship is a waste of talent points.
in my gear set raid buffed i could easily have 65% crit the duration of bleed is 8 seconds and is not stacking. debuff is refreshed on average every 2 seconds when i tested it. dmg ticks for practically nothing and has been known to overide itsself.
i would think 3 in imp tracking for 3% more dmg overall would be a better choice
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jamble
Posts : 36 Points : 26809 Join date : 2009-09-04 Age : 114 Location : lurkin in your thread
| Subject: Re: Hunters September 18th 2009, 20:44 | |
| Actually piercing shots is the same mechanic as deep wounds/righteous vengeance, it makes up about 12-13% of my overall damage per boss in ToC on my hunter.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#cxZ0eA0khzGIsguio
glyph of steady shot / serpent sting
Stack armor pen and drop arcane shot from your rotation.
Your prioritization, because you don't have kill shot, would be Chimera > Aimed > Steady | |
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Kuzii
Posts : 50 Points : 26771 Join date : 2009-09-18 Age : 34 Location : Virginia Beach
| Subject: Re: Hunters September 18th 2009, 20:54 | |
| - jamble wrote:
- Actually piercing shots is the same mechanic as deep wounds/righteous vengeance, it makes up about 12-13% of my overall damage per boss in ToC on my hunter.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#cxZ0eA0khzGIsguio
glyph of steady shot / serpent sting
Stack armor pen and drop arcane shot from your rotation.
Your prioritization, because you don't have kill shot, would be Chimera > Aimed > Steady happy b-day. i think you were afk when we wished you one in game. i would question the 13% of your dmg with it. while i was testing it was like 4%-7% i would still agree with that rotation. ive been sticking to my pve survival spec for now. | |
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jamble
Posts : 36 Points : 26809 Join date : 2009-09-04 Age : 114 Location : lurkin in your thread
| Subject: Re: Hunters September 19th 2009, 01:45 | |
| It will be so low when you are testing it because you don't have consumables and/or raid buffs. | |
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Althabrandr
Posts : 18 Points : 26779 Join date : 2009-09-04 Age : 40 Location : Salt Lake City
| Subject: Re: Hunters September 20th 2009, 09:20 | |
| Why would I be dropping arcane shot?
And gemming for ArP could be potentially problematic because I dont think we can gem any other way without dropping our crit below 40%. At least, I know I will drop a bit below it. Maybe 38-39%. And my AP will also take a significant dive. My current ArP is at 30%. | |
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Kuzii
Posts : 50 Points : 26771 Join date : 2009-09-18 Age : 34 Location : Virginia Beach
| Subject: Re: Hunters September 20th 2009, 15:10 | |
| i would be cutting it close. i have 45% crit atm 37% armor pen full agil gems | |
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jamble
Posts : 36 Points : 26809 Join date : 2009-09-04 Age : 114 Location : lurkin in your thread
| Subject: Re: Hunters September 20th 2009, 20:49 | |
| You drop arcane shot because having over 50% armor pen makes your steady/aimed/chimera all hit harder than arcane. You shouldn't worry as much about your crit. Crit isn't everything as a hunter. The trade for all calsses that stack armor pen is always going to be Ap. There is a gear setup that allows you to get upwards to 50% armor pen without any gems at 70. | |
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Kuzii
Posts : 50 Points : 26771 Join date : 2009-09-18 Age : 34 Location : Virginia Beach
| Subject: Re: Hunters September 20th 2009, 21:52 | |
| - jamble wrote:
- You drop arcane shot because having over 50% armor pen makes your steady/aimed/chimera all hit harder than arcane. You shouldn't worry as much about your crit. Crit isn't everything as a hunter. The trade for all calsses that stack armor pen is always going to be Ap. There is a gear setup that allows you to get upwards to 50% armor pen without any gems at 70.
i want to see that set.. odds are i own most of it. | |
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jamble
Posts : 36 Points : 26809 Join date : 2009-09-04 Age : 114 Location : lurkin in your thread
| Subject: Re: Hunters September 21st 2009, 09:10 | |
| You do, the only pieces of your gear you would replace would be your melee weapons, shoulders, gloves, chest, and legs.
You get the KJ fist and the trash fist, the leather legs off felmyst, leather chest off mu'ru, and the mail gloves off KJ. You use t6 shoulders to keep the 4 set. This setup gives you about 50% armor pen without gems. I'm writing a paper at the moment but later when I get time I will make the gear setup for you.
www.chardev.org | |
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Althabrandr
Posts : 18 Points : 26779 Join date : 2009-09-04 Age : 40 Location : Salt Lake City
| Subject: Re: Hunters September 21st 2009, 09:57 | |
| I'm trying not to look at Kuzii's avatar. My wife just about killed me when she saw me staring at that. XD
Anyways, Im far from getting all the ArP pieces. While you two are posting here do you think I should gem the KJ fist with ArP or Agi? And then enchants Double 65 AP, yes? God I need a better bow. Personally, I would love to have Golden Bow of Quel'Thalas because it looks cooler than the BT/Hyjal ones. Bristleblitz if nothing else arises. | |
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jamble
Posts : 36 Points : 26809 Join date : 2009-09-04 Age : 114 Location : lurkin in your thread
| Subject: Re: Hunters September 21st 2009, 10:37 | |
| http://www.chardev.org/?template=262943 50% armor pen no gems or enchants.
http://www.chardev.org/?template=262950 96% armor pen using gems and enchants with madness and no professions.
http://www.chardev.org/?template=262953 JC/BS: Gains about 2-3% crit over all other comps.
http://www.chardev.org/?template=262958 Scribe/LW: This is my personal favorite because of the shoulder and leg enchant.
Just for fun:
http://www.chardev.org/?template=262973 4658 AP with 41% armor pen 34.5% crit LW/Scribe
Last edited by jamble on September 21st 2009, 11:20; edited 2 times in total | |
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Kuzii
Posts : 50 Points : 26771 Join date : 2009-09-18 Age : 34 Location : Virginia Beach
| Subject: Re: Hunters September 21st 2009, 11:08 | |
| - jamble wrote:
- You do, the only pieces of your gear you would replace would be your melee weapons, shoulders, gloves, chest, and legs.
You get the KJ fist and the trash fist, the leather legs off felmyst, leather chest off mu'ru, and the mail gloves off KJ. You use t6 shoulders to keep the 4 set. This setup gives you about 50% armor pen without gems. I'm writing a paper at the moment but later when I get time I will make the gear setup for you.
www.chardev.org missing mounting vengence chest off muru gloves off kj and lol at getting in trouble from my avatar. | |
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kumo Admin
Posts : 79 Points : 26896 Join date : 2009-09-02 Location : Philadelphia, PA
| Subject: Re: Hunters September 21st 2009, 19:37 | |
| Jamble, are you coming from a hunter? These are some interesting numbers :O
I am glad to see you are so interested in checking out numbers of these kinds. Not many individuals in the guild are as interested in min/maxing their characters, which is unfortunate. | |
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jamble
Posts : 36 Points : 26809 Join date : 2009-09-04 Age : 114 Location : lurkin in your thread
| Subject: Re: Hunters September 21st 2009, 20:46 | |
| Yeah I've always raided on a hunter from vanilla to now. | |
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Althabrandr
Posts : 18 Points : 26779 Join date : 2009-09-04 Age : 40 Location : Salt Lake City
| Subject: Re: Hunters September 22nd 2009, 10:05 | |
| Is it worth it to drop Arcane shot even if you dont intend to go ArP? My shot rotation is: Serpent->Chimera->Aimed->Arcane->Steady
Also I've noticed my spec is different from our other hunters. I do have Dual Spec and I've never actually used it. http://www.wowarmory.com/character-talents.xml?r=Korgath&n=Althabrandr&group=1
I've used this spec since I hit 70. I havnt really changed it much. It was primarily used for PvP but i didnt notice a huge difference in damage comparably between Doma and I before he got Thoridal so I never thought about changing it. I wonder how much more dps I will be squeezing out of the cookie cutter 5/56/0.
Admittedly its nice to have both Kuzzi and Jamble here. Doma would make a decent resource provided he was available more often. I must thank you for two for that. =) | |
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jamble
Posts : 36 Points : 26809 Join date : 2009-09-04 Age : 114 Location : lurkin in your thread
| Subject: Re: Hunters September 22nd 2009, 12:40 | |
| No it's not really worth dropping arcane shot if you don't plan on gemming for armor pen. until you get full BiS for Marks. Full BiS you can drop arcane because you should have 45+% without gems.
This is another thing to take into consideration.
Lets say you have two bots that have zero latency, basically on a LAN, and can do the shot prioritization/rotation flawlessly. Comparing numbers of a marks hunter and survival hunter in the same gear, both of which gemming for agility and not using armor pen gear, will do VERY close to the same DPS. If you took this same scenario except the marks hunter is at the armor pen. cap, the marks hunter will do a good 30-40% more dps than the survival hunter.
Since about 40-50% of your damage is explosive shot(fire damage that scales with AP) as survival, armor pen is a very lack luster stat as survival. It falls into fifth place behind Hit/Agi > Ap > crit > int > armor pen. > stam
@cookie cutter specs for 70
There are several of these:
Agi/ap build without imp hunter's mark-Imp Arcane shot: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#cxbZ0eVsohzGIsxuio:fi
*Agi/ap build with imp HM-Imp Arcane shot: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#cLZ0eAsohzGIsxuio:fi
Armor pen build without imp HM: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#cxZzeVoRhzGIsguio:fi
*Armor pen build with imp HM: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#cxbZ0eAoohzGIsxuio:fi
Basically the rotation over 30 seconds for the Armor pen build is: Sec----Spell 0.0----Serpent Sting + Silencing Shot 1.5----Rapid Fire 3.0----Chimera 4.5----Aimed 6.0----Readiness 7.5----Chimera 9.0----Aimed 10.5-- Steady 12.0-- Steady 13.5-- Steady 15.0-- Steady 16.5-- Rapid Fire 18.0-- Chimera 19.5-- Aimed 20.0-- + Silencing Shot 21.0-- Steady 22.5-- Steady 24.0-- Steady 25.5-- Steady 27.0-- Steady 28.5-- Chimera 30.0-- Aimed It's very simple really.
Imp Arcane shot spec: Sec----Spell 0.0----Serpent Sting + Silencing Shot 1.5----Chimera 3.0----Arcane 4.5----Aimed 6.0----Rapid Fire 7.5----Readiness 9.0----Chimera 10.5-- Arcane 12.0-- Aimed 13.5-- Steady 15.0-- Steady 16.5-- Arcane 18.0-- Rapid Fire 19.5-- Chimera 20.0-- + Silencing Shot 21.0-- Steady 22.5-- Arcane 24.0-- Aimed 25.5-- Steady 27.0-- Steady 28.5-- Arcane 30.0-- Chimera
The Imp arcane spec is a bit harder to layout because of the uneven six second cooldown on arcane shot and its higher priority than aimed shot.
If you're wondering why I have "+ Silencing Shot" it's because it's off the GCD and does 50% of your weapon damage(basically free damage!)
A few macros I used while Raiding: MD: #showtooltip Misdirrection /cast [target=focus] Misdirrection /y MD on %F to %T!! /script SendChatMessage("!!! MD ON YOU TO %T !!!", "WHISPER", "Common", UnitName("focus"));
If you're surv or have imp. tracking this macro should still work: #showtooltip /stopmacro [noexists] /run for i=1,GetNumTrackingTypes() do local n, t, a, c = GetTrackingInfo(i); if string.find(n, UnitCreatureType("target")) then if t~=GetTrackingTexture(i) then SetTracking(i); end end end /cast Hunter's Mark
Aspects: The "!" keeps you from taking your aspect off if you already have the aspect up, it still casts it but it doesn't remove the buff. /cast !Aspect of the Viper /cast [mod] !Aspect of the Hawk
*We need at least one of these in the raid. | |
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Kuzii
Posts : 50 Points : 26771 Join date : 2009-09-18 Age : 34 Location : Virginia Beach
| Subject: Re: Hunters September 23rd 2009, 04:08 | |
| armor pen just got nerfed happy i didnt go that way.
bm pve dmg got buffed. the pvp lol immune to all got nerfed to 10 seconds gg... | |
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jamble
Posts : 36 Points : 26809 Join date : 2009-09-04 Age : 114 Location : lurkin in your thread
| Subject: Re: Hunters September 23rd 2009, 08:23 | |
| The armor pen nerf didn't do much. Armor pen is still the best stat for marks, you just need one or two extra armor pen gems. | |
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Kuzii
Posts : 50 Points : 26771 Join date : 2009-09-18 Age : 34 Location : Virginia Beach
| Subject: Re: Hunters September 23rd 2009, 14:00 | |
| reduction of 13% per point or something like that. | |
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Kuzii
Posts : 50 Points : 26771 Join date : 2009-09-18 Age : 34 Location : Virginia Beach
| Subject: Re: Hunters September 23rd 2009, 14:01 | |
| my Pve armor pen dropped from 37% to 32% fmylife | |
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Althabrandr
Posts : 18 Points : 26779 Join date : 2009-09-04 Age : 40 Location : Salt Lake City
| Subject: Re: Hunters September 23rd 2009, 19:20 | |
| Hmmm... I will probably just gem for AGI but if you'd like I can spec with imp HM. | |
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jamble
Posts : 36 Points : 26809 Join date : 2009-09-04 Age : 114 Location : lurkin in your thread
| Subject: Re: Hunters September 23rd 2009, 20:55 | |
| Why gem agi when armor pen is superior even after the nerf? | |
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Althabrandr
Posts : 18 Points : 26779 Join date : 2009-09-04 Age : 40 Location : Salt Lake City
| Subject: Re: Hunters September 23rd 2009, 23:34 | |
| Because I dont have the money. I farm everything on my 70. Its not optimal but ive read up on it and it sounds like its not a huge dps decrease by not going ArP. | |
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kumo Admin
Posts : 79 Points : 26896 Join date : 2009-09-02 Location : Philadelphia, PA
| Subject: Re: Hunters September 23rd 2009, 23:43 | |
| - Althabrandr wrote:
- Because I dont have the money. I farm everything on my 70. Its not optimal but ive read up on it and it sounds like its not a huge dps decrease by not going ArP.
Wouldn't agility and armor pen gems cost the same? | |
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Althabrandr
Posts : 18 Points : 26779 Join date : 2009-09-04 Age : 40 Location : Salt Lake City
| Subject: Re: Hunters September 24th 2009, 08:33 | |
| The thing is I dont have any ArP gems. So if I regem all my gear thats well over 1500g. Right now I have about 1350g. I could start regemming. I feel really iffy about this. | |
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