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Kuzii

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PostSubject: Hunters   September 18th 2009, 19:07

i hereby claim this section of the forums for my own.

this section is for discussion of talent builds, debates, or even general question answer about the hunter class.

currently the top 2 builds i see are marks and survival. however,

for marks i personally believe piercing shots in markmanship is a waste of talent points.

in my gear set raid buffed i could easily have 65% crit
the duration of bleed is 8 seconds and is not stacking.
debuff is refreshed on average every 2 seconds when i tested it.
dmg ticks for practically nothing and has been known to overide itsself.

i would think 3 in imp tracking for 3% more dmg overall would be a better choice


discuss

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jamble



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PostSubject: Re: Hunters   September 18th 2009, 20:44

Actually piercing shots is the same mechanic as deep wounds/righteous vengeance, it makes up about 12-13% of my overall damage per boss in ToC on my hunter.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#cxZ0eA0khzGIsguio

glyph of steady shot / serpent sting

Stack armor pen and drop arcane shot from your rotation.

Your prioritization, because you don't have kill shot, would be Chimera > Aimed > Steady
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Kuzii

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PostSubject: Re: Hunters   September 18th 2009, 20:54

jamble wrote:
Actually piercing shots is the same mechanic as deep wounds/righteous vengeance, it makes up about 12-13% of my overall damage per boss in ToC on my hunter.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#cxZ0eA0khzGIsguio

glyph of steady shot / serpent sting

Stack armor pen and drop arcane shot from your rotation.

Your prioritization, because you don't have kill shot, would be Chimera > Aimed > Steady

happy b-day. i think you were afk when we wished you one in game.

i would question the 13% of your dmg with it. while i was testing it was like 4%-7%

i would still agree with that rotation.

ive been sticking to my pve survival spec for now.
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PostSubject: Re: Hunters   September 19th 2009, 01:45

It will be so low when you are testing it because you don't have consumables and/or raid buffs.
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PostSubject: Re: Hunters   September 20th 2009, 09:20

Why would I be dropping arcane shot?

And gemming for ArP could be potentially problematic because I dont think we can gem any other way without dropping our crit below 40%. At least, I know I will drop a bit below it. Maybe 38-39%. And my AP will also take a significant dive. My current ArP is at 30%.
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PostSubject: Re: Hunters   September 20th 2009, 15:10

i would be cutting it close. i have 45% crit atm 37% armor pen full agil gems

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PostSubject: Re: Hunters   September 20th 2009, 20:49

You drop arcane shot because having over 50% armor pen makes your steady/aimed/chimera all hit harder than arcane. You shouldn't worry as much about your crit. Crit isn't everything as a hunter. The trade for all calsses that stack armor pen is always going to be Ap. There is a gear setup that allows you to get upwards to 50% armor pen without any gems at 70.
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Kuzii

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PostSubject: Re: Hunters   September 20th 2009, 21:52

jamble wrote:
You drop arcane shot because having over 50% armor pen makes your steady/aimed/chimera all hit harder than arcane. You shouldn't worry as much about your crit. Crit isn't everything as a hunter. The trade for all calsses that stack armor pen is always going to be Ap. There is a gear setup that allows you to get upwards to 50% armor pen without any gems at 70.

i want to see that set.. odds are i own most of it.

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PostSubject: Re: Hunters   September 21st 2009, 09:10

You do, the only pieces of your gear you would replace would be your melee weapons, shoulders, gloves, chest, and legs.


You get the KJ fist and the trash fist, the leather legs off felmyst, leather chest off mu'ru, and the mail gloves off KJ. You use t6 shoulders to keep the 4 set. This setup gives you about 50% armor pen without gems. I'm writing a paper at the moment but later when I get time I will make the gear setup for you.

www.chardev.org
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Althabrandr



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PostSubject: Re: Hunters   September 21st 2009, 09:57

I'm trying not to look at Kuzii's avatar. My wife just about killed me when she saw me staring at that. XD

Anyways, Im far from getting all the ArP pieces. While you two are posting here do you think I should gem the KJ fist with ArP or Agi? And then enchants Double 65 AP, yes? God I need a better bow. Personally, I would love to have Golden Bow of Quel'Thalas because it looks cooler than the BT/Hyjal ones. Bristleblitz if nothing else arises.
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PostSubject: Re: Hunters   September 21st 2009, 10:37

http://www.chardev.org/?template=262943
50% armor pen no gems or enchants.


http://www.chardev.org/?template=262950
96% armor pen using gems and enchants with madness and no professions.


http://www.chardev.org/?template=262953
JC/BS: Gains about 2-3% crit over all other comps.


http://www.chardev.org/?template=262958
Scribe/LW: This is my personal favorite because of the shoulder and leg enchant.




Just for fun:

http://www.chardev.org/?template=262973
4658 AP with 41% armor pen 34.5% crit LW/Scribe


Last edited by jamble on September 21st 2009, 11:20; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Hunters   September 21st 2009, 11:08

jamble wrote:
You do, the only pieces of your gear you would replace would be your melee weapons, shoulders, gloves, chest, and legs.


You get the KJ fist and the trash fist, the leather legs off felmyst, leather chest off mu'ru, and the mail gloves off KJ. You use t6 shoulders to keep the 4 set. This setup gives you about 50% armor pen without gems. I'm writing a paper at the moment but later when I get time I will make the gear setup for you.

www.chardev.org

missing

mounting vengence
chest off muru
gloves off kj

and lol at getting in trouble from my avatar.

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PostSubject: Re: Hunters   September 21st 2009, 19:37

Jamble, are you coming from a hunter? These are some interesting numbers :O

I am glad to see you are so interested in checking out numbers of these kinds. Not many individuals in the guild are as interested in min/maxing their characters, which is unfortunate.

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PostSubject: Re: Hunters   September 21st 2009, 20:46

Yeah I've always raided on a hunter from vanilla to now.
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PostSubject: Re: Hunters   September 22nd 2009, 10:05

Is it worth it to drop Arcane shot even if you dont intend to go ArP? My shot rotation is: Serpent->Chimera->Aimed->Arcane->Steady

Also I've noticed my spec is different from our other hunters. I do have Dual Spec and I've never actually used it.
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-talents.xml?r=Korgath&n=Althabrandr&group=1

I've used this spec since I hit 70. I havnt really changed it much. It was primarily used for PvP but i didnt notice a huge difference in damage comparably between Doma and I before he got Thoridal so I never thought about changing it. I wonder how much more dps I will be squeezing out of the cookie cutter 5/56/0.

Admittedly its nice to have both Kuzzi and Jamble here. Doma would make a decent resource provided he was available more often. I must thank you for two for that. =)
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jamble



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PostSubject: Re: Hunters   September 22nd 2009, 12:40

No it's not really worth dropping arcane shot if you don't plan on gemming for armor pen. until you get full BiS for Marks. Full BiS you can drop arcane because you should have 45+% without gems.



This is another thing to take into consideration.

Lets say you have two bots that have zero latency, basically on a LAN, and can do the shot prioritization/rotation flawlessly. Comparing numbers of a marks hunter and survival hunter in the same gear, both of which gemming for agility and not using armor pen gear, will do VERY close to the same DPS. If you took this same scenario except the marks hunter is at the armor pen. cap, the marks hunter will do a good 30-40% more dps than the survival hunter.

Since about 40-50% of your damage is explosive shot(fire damage that scales with AP) as survival, armor pen is a very lack luster stat as survival. It falls into fifth place behind Hit/Agi > Ap > crit > int > armor pen. > stam




@cookie cutter specs for 70

There are several of these:

Agi/ap build without imp hunter's mark-Imp Arcane shot:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#cxbZ0eVsohzGIsxuio:fi

*Agi/ap build with imp HM-Imp Arcane shot:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#cLZ0eAsohzGIsxuio:fi

Armor pen build without imp HM:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#cxZzeVoRhzGIsguio:fi

*Armor pen build with imp HM:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#cxbZ0eAoohzGIsxuio:fi


Basically the rotation over 30 seconds for the Armor pen build is:
Sec----Spell
0.0----Serpent Sting + Silencing Shot
1.5----Rapid Fire
3.0----Chimera
4.5----Aimed
6.0----Readiness
7.5----Chimera
9.0----Aimed
10.5-- Steady
12.0-- Steady
13.5-- Steady
15.0-- Steady
16.5-- Rapid Fire
18.0-- Chimera
19.5-- Aimed
20.0-- + Silencing Shot
21.0-- Steady
22.5-- Steady
24.0-- Steady
25.5-- Steady
27.0-- Steady
28.5-- Chimera
30.0-- Aimed
It's very simple really.

Imp Arcane shot spec:
Sec----Spell
0.0----Serpent Sting + Silencing Shot
1.5----Chimera
3.0----Arcane
4.5----Aimed
6.0----Rapid Fire
7.5----Readiness
9.0----Chimera
10.5-- Arcane
12.0-- Aimed
13.5-- Steady
15.0-- Steady
16.5-- Arcane
18.0-- Rapid Fire
19.5-- Chimera
20.0-- + Silencing Shot
21.0-- Steady
22.5-- Arcane
24.0-- Aimed
25.5-- Steady
27.0-- Steady
28.5-- Arcane
30.0-- Chimera

The Imp arcane spec is a bit harder to layout because of the uneven six second cooldown on arcane shot and its higher priority than aimed shot.

If you're wondering why I have "+ Silencing Shot" it's because it's off the GCD and does 50% of your weapon damage(basically free damage!)

A few macros I used while Raiding:
MD:
#showtooltip Misdirrection
/cast [target=focus] Misdirrection
/y MD on %F to %T!!
/script SendChatMessage("!!! MD ON YOU TO %T !!!", "WHISPER", "Common", UnitName("focus"));


If you're surv or have imp. tracking this macro should still work:
#showtooltip
/stopmacro [noexists]
/run for i=1,GetNumTrackingTypes() do local n, t, a, c = GetTrackingInfo(i); if string.find(n, UnitCreatureType("target")) then if t~=GetTrackingTexture(i) then SetTracking(i); end end end
/cast Hunter's Mark

Aspects: The "!" keeps you from taking your aspect off if you already have the aspect up, it still casts it but it doesn't remove the buff.
/cast !Aspect of the Viper
/cast [mod] !Aspect of the Hawk

*We need at least one of these in the raid.
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PostSubject: Re: Hunters   September 23rd 2009, 04:08

armor pen just got nerfed happy i didnt go that way.

bm pve dmg got buffed. the pvp lol immune to all got nerfed to 10 seconds gg...

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PostSubject: Re: Hunters   September 23rd 2009, 08:23

The armor pen nerf didn't do much. Armor pen is still the best stat for marks, you just need one or two extra armor pen gems.
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PostSubject: Re: Hunters   September 23rd 2009, 14:00

reduction of 13% per point or something like that.

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PostSubject: Re: Hunters   September 23rd 2009, 14:01

my Pve armor pen dropped from 37% to 32% fmylife

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PostSubject: Re: Hunters   September 23rd 2009, 19:20

Hmmm... I will probably just gem for AGI but if you'd like I can spec with imp HM.
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PostSubject: Re: Hunters   September 23rd 2009, 20:55

Why gem agi when armor pen is superior even after the nerf?
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PostSubject: Re: Hunters   September 23rd 2009, 23:34

Because I dont have the money. I farm everything on my 70. Its not optimal but ive read up on it and it sounds like its not a huge dps decrease by not going ArP.
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PostSubject: Re: Hunters   September 23rd 2009, 23:43

Althabrandr wrote:
Because I dont have the money. I farm everything on my 70. Its not optimal but ive read up on it and it sounds like its not a huge dps decrease by not going ArP.

Wouldn't agility and armor pen gems cost the same?

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PostSubject: Re: Hunters   September 24th 2009, 08:33

The thing is I dont have any ArP gems. So if I regem all my gear thats well over 1500g. Right now I have about 1350g. I could start regemming. I feel really iffy about this.
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